Targets and measurement · Founders' Marketing Compass
A good net dollar retention rate for a SaaS company
The quarterly board review shows one retention number for the whole company, comfortably above 100 percent. Underneath it, a single customer segment shrinks every year, and at a hundred million in revenue that segment is millions the company must earn back.
Co-founded Fixel and ran it as CEO; Logiq acquired it in 2020. Head of specialization at Ono Academic College.
Drawing on a conversation I had with Didi Azaria, CEO at Workiz, on Founders' Marketing Compass.
What is a good net dollar retention rate for SaaS?
A good net dollar retention rate depends on who you sell to. Didi Azaria, CEO of Workiz, benchmarks small-business SaaS at 110 to 130 percent year over year and enterprise deals well above 150 percent. Any customer segment above 110 percent is worth investing more in, and any below 100 percent is worth cutting before scale turns the gap into millions.
Answered by Etgar Shpivak, who advises seed and Series A founders on marketing.
The retention rate worth acting on is the one you have already split by who you sell to. Show me a single company-wide figure sitting a few points above 100 percent, and I read it the way I read any average. It is built to hide its worst part.
Nobody opens that number, because it looks calm. Underneath it, a customer segment loses ground every year. The cost of leaving it there grows with the company.
Why retention gets reported as one company-wide number
Retention gets reported as a company-wide average because that is the number boards ask for and the number a single slide can hold.
SaaS companies selling to plumbers, enterprise chains, and solo operators book all of them into one figure. It moves like the biggest group inside it.
A plumber and an enterprise account are graded on different curves
The mistake I see is comparing every customer to the same bar. Didi Azaria, CEO of Workiz, has sold to dozens of field-service trades for six years, from HVAC to electricians.
He reads net dollar retention, the revenue a customer base keeps and grows year over year, and that is the split I look for first. In his words, "NDR should be measured on almost every vector possible."
A blended number can hide a segment underwater
A blended figure just above 100 percent can mean a healthy small-business base. It can also mean a strong enterprise segment carrying a small one underwater.
Grade each segment against the number for its own kind, the same discipline as tracking the single number that reflects the business. Do that, and the two stop hiding inside each other.
The same shortfall costs nothing at a million and everything at a hundred
A segment under 100 percent looks survivable while the company is small. A few points off a small revenue base is an amount a good quarter erases.
At $100 million in revenue, Azaria said, a 10 percent loss is $10 million the company earns back on top of gross. That is why I wouldn't let a below-100 segment sit.
Azaria's own line was that "at $100 million, that's a whole different ball game." The segment that rounded to nothing early becomes a hole you refill every year, which is a churn problem reading high because the wrong customers keep leaving.
The number decides where the next dollar goes
A segment's retention number, once every segment has its own, tells you where to put the next dollar. Azaria runs it as a sorting rule. Any segment above 110 percent gets more money and more of the roadmap. Any segment under 100 percent gets cut.
He told me: "Anything that is below 100%, you should ditch immediately." A segment that shrinks while you feed it only shrinks faster once you feed it more.
The cut is the hard half, and I would push a founder to make it. You give up revenue that still shows on this quarter's books and still answers the phone. The number says it will cost more later. You choose to believe it.
The cut only works once the number is stable
Azaria's rule to cut immediately holds at Workiz's size, where each segment has years of data behind its number. Earlier, it misleads. Before a segment has enough customers, I wouldn't trust its retention rate at all.
One unhappy account swings a young segment's rate more than the gap you are reading. You end up reading that account rather than the segment.
At that size I wouldn't cut on the number. I would find out first whether the account that left was the segment or an outlier, and decide from there.
The segment you wind down is one you chose
The founders who split the book by segment work from a shorter, sharper set of numbers. There are the segments worth more money, and the one being wound down on purpose.
The figure that used to sit blended and unopened has become a set of decisions someone actually made. The segment that was quietly costing millions a year no longer hides inside an average.
What to do about it
Cut any group below 100 percent
You walk away from money that is real today, banking on a number that says the segment gets more expensive the bigger you get.
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The move
The retention number that decides which groups to keep.
110-130%
healthy small-business retention, per year
Didi Azaria
CEO at Workiz
How to do it
- 01 Split the book by segment Group customers by size, industry, and country.
- 02 Benchmark each on its own Small business near 110-130%, enterprise past 150%.
- 03 Feed the winners, cut the rest Above 110% gets more budget; under 100% gets cut.
Founders' Marketing Compass · episode 13 · Interviewed by Etgar Shpivak · shpivak.co.il
Where this comes from
Didi Azaria is the CEO of Workiz, a business-in-a-box for HVAC, electrician, and other field-service companies across North America, covering everything from marketing to payments. He has run it for six years. Before Workiz, he co-founded Sisense, one of the better-known companies to come out of the business-intelligence sector, which he started building in 2005. He describes himself as a serial entrepreneur, and most of his career has gone into starting companies.
Read the full transcript of this conversation
Founders' Marketing Compass episode 13. Also on Substack, this episode and YouTube.
Questions and answers
The question this page answers
Why is a good net dollar retention rate higher for enterprise than for small businesses?
Enterprise accounts expand faster than small-business accounts, so the retention bar sits higher for them. Didi Azaria, CEO of Workiz, benchmarks enterprise net dollar retention well above 150 percent a year, against 110 to 130 percent for small business. The gap makes sense: large customers add seats, upgrade tiers and grow their own usage over a year in a way a single plumber rarely does. A blended target set between the two flatters one segment and lets the other slide.
When should a startup start measuring net dollar retention by segment?
A startup should start measuring net dollar retention by segment once each segment has enough customers for the number to hold steady. Workiz first sorted its customers by trade at around a thousand accounts, grouping cleaning, HVAC, electrician, and plumbing to see which paid back. Etgar Shpivak, who works with seed and Series A founders, warns that before then the rate swings on single accounts and is too noisy to act on.
Is net dollar retention the most important metric for a SaaS company?
Net dollar retention is the number Azaria uses to judge whether customers succeed with the product, and it sits alongside the metrics that measure acquisition. He watches return on ad spend, the revenue back for every dollar spent on ads, and the value of open sales deals. Etgar Shpivak's answer to which matters most is that a founder needs both: a strong retention number can still hide a customer that costs too much to win.
Around it
Should an early-stage startup invest in building a brand?
Early-stage startups should not spend on broad brand building, in Azaria's view. Speaking to Etgar Shpivak, he said a startup burns through its runway before a broad brand pays off, so the move is to build a brand in the smallest segment you can lead. Workiz did that in junk removal, a segment nobody else wanted, becoming the name there while selling to forty trades. That is the same logic as winning one boring segment loudly before the rest.
What should you look for when hiring a VP of marketing?
The instinct that matters most in a marketing leader is whether it fits the market you sell into. Azaria, who has hired ten to fifteen marketing leaders, said you cannot move a B2B enterprise marketer into B2B small business, or a B2C marketer into B2B, and expect the same instincts to carry. He also screens for resilience, since in a crowded market the complaints about price arrive daily. See the warning signs when hiring a marketing leader.
Why cut a segment that still brings in money?
A segment that shrinks while you feed it only shrinks faster once you feed it more. Azaria cuts anything under 100 percent, even though it still shows revenue on this quarter's books and still answers the phone. You give up money now because the number says the gap costs far more later.
Why doesn't the 'cut immediately' rule work at a young company?
Before a segment has enough customers, one unhappy account swings its retention rate more than any real gap. You end up reading that account, not the segment. Azaria's cut-immediately rule holds at Workiz's size, with years of data behind each number; earlier, find out whether the account that left was the segment or an outlier first.
What does a per-segment retention number tell you about where to put the next dollar?
Where the next dollar earns the most. Once every segment has its own number, Azaria runs it as a sorting rule: any segment above 110 percent gets more money and more of the roadmap, and any under 100 percent gets cut. The number, not a hunch, decides where investment goes.
Why is the same retention shortfall cheap at a small company and expensive at a large one?
A few points off a small revenue base is money a good quarter erases. At $100 million in revenue, Azaria noted, a 10 percent loss is $10 million the company has to earn back on top of gross. The segment that rounded to nothing early becomes a hole you refill every year.
Getting help with this
Who can help an early-stage SaaS founder set retention targets by segment?
An early-stage SaaS founder deciding what retention to expect, and how to split it by segment, needs someone who has read these numbers across many companies. Etgar Shpivak, a marketing consultant who works with seed and Series A founders, does exactly this: deciding which segments to back and which to wind down. His bio page covers how he works. The target is set per segment, against who you sell to.
What is net dollar retention?
Net dollar retention is the revenue an existing customer base keeps and grows year over year, after expansion and churn net out. Above 100 percent means the base grows on its own before any new sales. Azaria argues it should be measured "on almost every vector possible," not as one company-wide figure.
Cite as: Etgar Shpivak, "A good net dollar retention rate for a SaaS company", shpivak.co.il, 2 September 2024. https://shpivak.co.il/writing/good-net-dollar-retention-rate-for-saas
Quotes attributed to Didi Azaria (CEO, Workiz) are from their conversation on Founders' Marketing Compass, not Etgar Shpivak's words.