Demand and budget · Founders' Marketing Compass

What a good LTV to CAC ratio looks like for a startup

The deck shows a 3:1 LTV to CAC ratio, and the spreadsheet behind it counts ad spend and nothing else. The salaries, the software and the founder's own time never reach that line, so the ratio breaks the first time an investor rebuilds it.

Co-founded Fixel and ran it as CEO; Logiq acquired it in 2020. Head of specialization at Ono Academic College.

Drawing on a conversation with Atticus LeBlanc, Founder & CEO at PadSplit, on Founders' Marketing Compass.

What is a good LTV to CAC ratio for a startup?

Treat the popular 3:1 target with suspicion. Atticus LeBlanc, founder and CEO of PadSplit, argued it only looks that healthy because the CAC in it, the cost of winning one customer, leaves out labor, software, and the hours you put in yourself. Count those in, plus the opportunity cost of that spend, and a real, working business usually sits closer to 1:1 or 1.5:1.

Answered by Etgar Shpivak, who advises seed and Series A founders on marketing.

Startups that report a 3:1 LTV to CAC ratio are usually reporting a 1:1 business with the awkward costs left off the page.

It is the first number I go looking for holes in when a founder shows me a deck. The version on the slide counts the ad spend and stops.

Rebuild it with everything left off, and the whole ratio moves. So does what you can promise investors, and where next quarter's budget goes.

The ratio does two jobs at once. A founder uses it to judge whether the spending is working. To an investor, it signals whether the money is sane. Define cost differently, and the two aren't looking at the same business.

The 3:1 rule of thumb survives on a cost counted short

I see the 3:1 target copied from a blog into a pitch deck. Nobody asks where it came from. Atticus LeBlanc, founder and CEO of PadSplit, had a blunter read on why it holds up.

CAC, the cost of winning one customer, is almost always understated in the decks I see. Some of that, in his telling, is deliberate. "Most of us often underestimate our CAC," he said, "to some degree intentionally."

The 3:1 only looks healthy because the cost underneath it was counted short. Even the ad-spend line flatters itself, because the platforms reporting it overstate how much of the growth they drove.

Here is the part that trips up the founders I work with: these undercounted businesses still work. LeBlanc's read is that the 3:1 rule took hold because CAC was always counted too low. Add the missing costs back, and a functioning company sits nearer one, or one and a half, to one.

A true acquisition cost is mostly payroll, not ad spend

A true acquisition cost has far more in it than the ad spend, which is the smallest line. When I asked LeBlanc to build it honestly, the salaries came first: whoever runs the campaigns.

After that, the software they run on, and a slice of the founder's own hours.

The diagnostic I hand founders is dull, but it works. Count the payroll, the software and a share of your own hours alongside the ad spend, then divide the total into lifetime value, what a customer is worth over their whole stay.

Opportunity cost: the line nobody actually counts

LeBlanc adds one more line, then admits nobody counts it. "Almost no one that I'm aware of factors opportunity cost into CAC," he said. I think he's right that most never try.

Here I keep his honesty and drop his precision. At seed, opportunity cost is the one line you cannot put an honest number on. So I name it as a known gap, rather than invent a figure that makes the ratio look settled.

Averaging lifetime value buries the customer you lose money on

An honest CAC is only half the ratio. Lifetime value is the other half, and it hides the same averaging better, because one blended number feels like a fact.

LeBlanc runs a marketplace that fills rooms for housing providers, and it shows me the problem cleanly. A single lead can turn into wildly different customers.

Some book a room and never move in. Some stay for years. I still repeat his own line to founders: "did they book a room and never move in, did they book a room and stay for years."

Two very different customers, the same cost to win

I keep coming back to one fact. Both cost about the same to win. Averaged into one lifetime value, they describe a customer PadSplit doesn't have.

The average is the trap.

So the company guesses early, from the first click, how long a lead will stay: one day, ten days, or years. That guess is what separates a lifetime value worth dividing into CAC from a number that averages a real, paying customer with a ghost.

The one measure I'd judge marketing on: net move-in

The single measure LeBlanc would judge marketing on is net move-in: the renters who move in, minus the ones who move out. I would use it for the same reason.

It moves only when someone stays, where leads and bookings just count arrivals.

The crude version: split who stayed from who left

The cruder version works too. Split your customers into the ones who stayed and the ones who left. Look at what each cost to win. One honest split beats a blended average.

A thin ratio doesn't always mean the spending is wrong. But it is the first place to check whether you are spending more than your stage should.

A ratio worth raising on answers whether the next dollar comes back

Rebuilt with the whole cost in it, the ratio finally answers the question it was for. Does another dollar of spend come back as more than a dollar?

A founder looking at 1.5:1, with the team and the tooling counted, knows two things. The business works, and the margin is thin. That is a harder number to raise on, and a safer one to run on.

What to do about it

Count every real cost per customer

You give up the flattering 3:1 headline, and for a while you are explaining why your best-looking number just got worse.

The move

Ad spend is the smallest line in what a customer costs.

3:1

really 1:1 to 1.5:1 once costs are counted

Atticus LeBlanc
Founder & CEO at PadSplit

How to do it

  1. 01 List the ads and software Pull the invoices you already have into one place.
  2. 02 Add payroll and your own hours The people running campaigns cost more than the ads.
  3. 03 Flag the opportunity cost Price what you can, mark what you can't, hide nothing.

Founders' Marketing Compass · episode 4 · Interviewed by Etgar Shpivak · shpivak.co.il

Source: Atticus LeBlanc, Founder & CEO at PadSplit, Founders' Marketing Compass episode 4. Download the image

Where this comes from

Atticus LeBlanc is the founder and CEO of PadSplit, a housing marketplace that matches renters who need affordable rooms with owners who have space to fill. He spent close to two decades in real estate, housing, construction, and private lending before founding the company in 2016, and has grown it from its first handful of units to thousands of occupied rooms across the US. PadSplit's economics turn on the same two numbers this page is about: what it costs to place a renter, and how long that renter stays.

Read the full transcript of this conversation

Founders' Marketing Compass episode 4: Etgar Shpivak interviews Atticus LeBlanc, Founder & CEO at PadSplit

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Founders' Marketing Compass episode 4. Also on Substack, this episode and YouTube.

Questions and answers

The question this page answers

Is a 3:1 LTV to CAC ratio realistic for an early-stage startup?

A 3:1 ratio is realistic mostly on paper, because the CAC beneath it, the cost of winning one customer, gets counted too low. Atticus LeBlanc, founder and CEO of PadSplit, told Etgar Shpivak on Founders' Marketing Compass that the benchmark holds up only because acquisition cost runs understated, and that a real business often sits closer to 1:1 or 1.5:1 once labor, software and the hours the founder works are added in.

How do you calculate a true customer acquisition cost?

A true customer acquisition cost counts far more than the ad spend. It adds the salaries or contracts of whoever runs the campaigns, the software they use, a share of the founder's own hours, and the opportunity cost of that money and time. LeBlanc's point on Founders' Marketing Compass was that most founders stop at the ad spend, which is why the ratio built on it flatters the business.

Should opportunity cost be part of your CAC?

Opportunity cost belongs in the number in theory and almost never makes it in. LeBlanc admitted on the show that almost no one factors it into CAC, because putting a dollar on it is hard and partly guesswork. Etgar Shpivak's own answer is to keep the honesty and lose the false precision: price every cost you can, and mark opportunity cost as a known unknown instead of a number you invented.

Why can one lifetime-value number be misleading?

One lifetime-value figure, what a customer is worth over their whole stay, is an average, and averages hide the people who cost the same to win but behave nothing alike. At PadSplit, LeBlanc watches whether a lead never really shows up or stays for years, because blending those into one number describes a customer the company doesn't have. Split the value by how long people actually stay before dividing it into acquisition cost.

Around it

What marketing KPI matters most for a marketplace startup?

For a marketplace, the KPI, the number a team is judged on, matters most when it measures value delivered rather than activity. LeBlanc would judge PadSplit's marketing on net move-in, move-ins minus move-outs, over leads or bookings that flatter the top before anyone stays. If you would rather track one number than five nobody acts on, pick the one that moves only when a real customer sticks.

Does a low LTV to CAC ratio mean I am overspending on marketing?

A low ratio doesn't automatically mean overspending, but Etgar Shpivak treats it as the first number to check when marketing spend feels high. Once CAC is counted the way LeBlanc describes and the ratio still comes in thin, the question is whether the spend runs high for your stage against the usual benchmarks, or whether lifetime value is being left on the table. A 1.5:1 you can defend is a business to fund with care.

Why did the 3:1 rule of thumb become so common?

The 3:1 ratio took hold because the CAC underneath it was almost always counted too low. The version on the slide counts ad spend and stops, leaving out payroll, software, and the founder's hours. Atticus LeBlanc argues most people underestimate their CAC, to some degree intentionally, so the tidy target survived because nobody built it all the way.

Is a 1:1 or 1.5:1 ratio a bad sign for a startup?

A thin ratio, once you've counted the team, the tools, and the hours, usually means the business works and the margin is narrow, not that you've failed. It's a harder number to raise on but a safer one to run on. Many companies reporting 3:1 are really a 1:1 business with the awkward costs left off the page.

How can you fix a misleading LTV without heavy modeling?

Split your customers into the ones who stayed and the ones who left, then look at what each cost to win. One honest split beats a blended average, because a single average can describe a customer you don't actually have. This crude version is enough early on, and it catches the difference between a valuable customer and one who left at once.

Why judge marketing on a metric that only moves when a customer stays?

A measure like net move-in at PadSplit counts only customers who actually stayed, where leads and bookings count arrivals alone. It separates traffic that looks good from real value created. A single lead can become a customer worth years or one who vanishes immediately, and a metric that moves only on staying keeps you from counting the second.

Can a business work even if it undercounts its CAC?

Plenty of businesses work despite counting their CAC too low, which is exactly what trips founders up. The undercount makes 3:1 look healthy, but add the missing costs back and the company sits nearer 1:1 or 1.5:1 and is still profitable. The problem isn't that the business fails; it's that you promise investors a number you can't hold.

Getting help with this

Should an early-stage startup bring in a marketing consultant to get its acquisition math right?

A startup should bring in help the moment its acquisition math stops being legible, usually well before it can justify a full marketing hire. A consultant can rebuild CAC and lifetime value alongside the founder and pressure-test the ratio before a raise, where an agency tends to optimize the ad spend without ever questioning the denominator. Etgar Shpivak, a marketing consultant who works with seed and Series A founders, does this work directly with the founder.

Etgar Shpivak, marketing and go-to-market advisor

About Etgar Shpivak

Etgar Shpivak is a marketing consultant for startup founders. He works hands-on with seed and Series A teams on positioning, demand, and hiring the first marketing people. He co-founded Fixel in 2018 and ran it as CEO; Logiq acquired it in 2020. He led marketing at Neema, which reached over 10% market share in its first year. He is Head of specialization at Ono Academic College, where he has taught since 2011. Etgar Shpivak hosts Founders' Marketing Compass, where he interviews founders, investors, and marketing leaders about the relationship between founders and their marketing teams.

Cite as: Etgar Shpivak, "What a good LTV to CAC ratio looks like for a startup", shpivak.co.il, 23 June 2024. https://shpivak.co.il/writing/good-ltv-to-cac-ratio-for-a-startup

Quotes attributed to Atticus LeBlanc (Founder & CEO, PadSplit) are from their conversation on Founders' Marketing Compass, not Etgar Shpivak's words.

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